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Thread: EL FUTURO DE LA FAP... aviones de combate!

  1. #5793
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    Deberiamos como lo dije en anteriores ocasiones por plataformas occidentales ya no tanto rusas o chinas

  2. #5794
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRIVERA View Post
    Es verdad lo que leí una vez en este foro, tenemos 2 FAP en el País.
    Si hay 2 FAP en el país entonces hay que convertirla en una sola, no continuar con la situación completamente anormal que hay hoy en día.

    Cada Avión Caza tiene sus ventajas y desventajas. Pueda que uno prevalesca sobre el otro, pero es el entrenamiento del piloto lo que marca la diferencia, de otro modo solo se vendería un solo modelo y marca.
    Hasta ahora no llego a comprender cómo el piloto puede ser tan bueno como para que no importe un comino la máquina que vuela. Más aún si tal piloto no tiene medios apropiados para entrenarse o volar lo suficiente, menos capacidades up-to-date en sus máquinas actuales.

    Hay que tener visión de darle lo mejor posible al piloto / marino / soldado para que cumpla su misión. Hay que dejar de lado la cultura de que es mejor tener muchos héroes que se inmolan pero al final se pierden las batallas.

    Pienso que necesariamente se tiene que ir por algún modelo sovietico o ruso o de bielorusia, ya que tenemos mas de 40 años de experiencia, manejo y logistica a pesar de lo tan dificil que es negociar con ellos.
    Saludos,
    Si negocias por cantidades pequeñas vas a tener menos poder de negociación que si negocias por mayores cantidades: es tan difícil de entender?

    Si hay que negociar por upgrade de 18 MiGs y por 12 M2000 (sin contar los Su25), entonces no hay sorpresa que nos puedan obtener buenos precios. Más aún porque hay que mantener distintas cadenas logísticas: para motores, para piezas de recambio, para las armas, para el training de tripulaciones y técnicos,...

    Vas por UN sólo avión, obtienes números consecuentes (digamos 24-36) para poder negociar en mayor volumen no sólo por aviones sino por paquete de soporte, armas, etc. Y reduces el número de filiales de especialización de tripulaciones y técnicos.. y al final ahorras en el tiempo. Es tan difícil de entender?

    Saludos
    Life is full of questions, idiots claim to have all the right answers

  3. #5795
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdelantePeru View Post
    dejame preguntarte acerca de este enunciado forista Albaz:
    Asumo que te refieres a 20 años como usuario del Mig 29 por que llevamos muchos más con otras aeronaves. Por favor aclaranos como podemos llegar a un consenso acerca del servicio ruso a las FFAA. O al menos tus argumentos para definir confiable.
    Varios foristas tienen posiciones diferentes en este aspecto. Desde la Union Sovietica hasta los estados post era sovietica, creo que no es sencillo establecer que el servicio actual ruso sea confinable o no... al menos desde mi punto de vista.
    Saludos,


    http://s25.photobucket.com/user/a199...mbqse.jpg.html

    Si eso no es confiable, no se que más puede serlo.
    Sólo como referencia, Francia proveedor de Argentina para los Mirage III y el soporte para el Nesher y Daggers, embargó las armas dirigidas a la Argentina durante la Guerra de Las Malvinas...digo

    Quote Originally Posted by gerope View Post
    Pero como se le va a contestar a un tipo que pone cifras como estas:
    F-16 $147 millones
    F-18 $107 millones
    Nada cuesta hacer "click" a los links, para ver de donde sale la información:
    Exclusive: U.S. set to approve sales of Boeing fighters to Qatar, Kuwait - sources
    Tom Finn, Andrea Shalal

    DOHA/BERLIN (Reuters) - The United States is poised to sell $7 billion worth of Boeing Co fighter jets to Qatar and Kuwait after years of delays, and it may start notifying U.S. lawmakers as early as next week, four U.S.- and Gulf-based sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

    The sales had stalled amid concerns raised by Israel, Washington’s closest Middle East ally, that equipment sent to equipment sent to Gulf Arab states would be used against it.

    U.S. officials have criticized Qatar for alleged ties to armed Islamist groups.

    Boeing said it was encouraged by continued progress and hoped to see movement on the two big arms sales soon. The State Department said it could not comment on any ongoing government-to-government arms sales requests.

    A senior U.S. administration official said it was U.S. policy not to comment on proposed U.S. defense sales until they had been formally notified to Congress, but Washington remained committed to the security and stability of the Gulf region.

    “For decades, we have demonstrated this commitment through continual efforts to enhance our diplomatic relationships and build defense capacity across the region, particularly through promotion of security agreements, foreign military sales, exercises, training, and exchanges,” the official said.

    Delays in the process have caused frustration among U.S. defense officials and industry executives, who have warned that Washington’s foot-dragging could cost them billions of dollars of business if buyers grow impatient and seek other suppliers.

    The expected approval of the fighter jet sales comes as the White House seeks to shore up relations with Gulf Arab allies who want to increase their military capabilities. They fear Washington is drawing closer to Iran, their arch-rival, after its nuclear deal with world powers earlier this year.

    “It is imminent. We expect a decision next week,” said an official from Qatar’s defense ministry, who declined to be named as he was not authorized to speak publicly.

    An adviser to Qatar’s military also said the deal was moving ahead.

    Neither commented on the cost or number of jets that would be delivered.

    The Pentagon and the State Department have been considering the sale of 36 Boeing F-15 fighter jets to Qatar valued at around $4 billion. They are also considering the sale of 28 F/A- 18E/F Super Hornets, plus options for 12 more, to Kuwait in a deal valued at around $3 billion.

    Sources said officials at both agencies had largely agreed to the deals some time ago, but had been awaiting final approval from the White House, which is now on board.

    “A decision by the administration is very close,” said one of the sources, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

    Once the White House gives its formal approval, U.S. officials will start to informally notify U.S. lawmakers before sending a formal notification to Congress 40 days later, at which point the deals will be publicly announced.

    A third deal, the sale of F-16 fighters built by Lockheed Martin Corp to Bahrain, remains under consideration, but approval is not as far along, said one of the sources.

    Qatar - home to the largest U.S. air base in the Middle East - and Kuwait have ramped up military spending after uprisings across the Arab World and amid rising tensions between Gulf Arab states and Iran.

    Both Qatar and Kuwait are part of a 34-nation alliance announced by Saudi Arabia in December aimed at countering Islamic State and al Qaeda in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt and Afghanistan.

    Reporting by Andrea Shalal and Tom Finn; Editing by Larry King and Andrew Hay
    Our Standards:The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qa...-idUSKCN1175GQ

    Bahrain’s Lockheed F-16 Buy Said to Come With U.S. Strings
    By Anthony Capaccio
    30 de septiembre de 2016 12:37 GMT-5 30 de septiembre de 2016 14:12 GMT-

    The Obama administration has told Congress it won’t complete approval for Bahrain to buy as many as 19 F-16 fighter jets from Lockheed Martin Corp. and upgrades for older ones for almost $4 billion until the Gulf ally demonstrates progress on human rights, according to people familiar with the issue.

    The declaration of concern, which doesn’t specify what steps Bahrain would have to take, was included in a draft notification of the pending sale that the administration sent to Congress on Wednesday, according to the people who asked not to be identified discussing details of the message that wasn’t released publicly.

    The proposed sale to Bahrain is one of three involving fighter jets by Lockheed and Boeing Co. to Persian Gulf allies, according to people familiar with the decision. The initial, informal notifications to Congress say the potential sales include as many as 72 Boeing F-15 jets to Qatar and as many as 32 of the company’s F/A-18 E/F fighters to Kuwait, according to one of the people.

    Crackdown on Dissent

    While the long-delayed sales would deliver on President Barack Obama’s promise to bolster the defense of Gulf allies worried by U.S. participation in the nuclear deal with their arch-rival Iran, the strings attached to the Bahrain sale in the draft, which could still change, reflect concerns in the administration over that government’s crackdown on dissent and opposition.

    Without specifying how much Bahrain must do before the arms sale can move forward, the Obama administration is calling on its rulers to reverse its moves suppressing nonviolent opposition and dissolving the al-Wefaq political society, the main opposition group of the country’s Shiite majority, according to an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity. The administration is also concerned by continuing legal actions against Sheikh Issa Qassim, al-Wefaq’s leader, and the detention of human-rights activist Nabeel Rajab, the official said.

    Secretary of State John Kerry has previously condemned the decision to dissolve al-Wefaq, saying the government’s efforts to suppress nonviolent opposition undermine Bahrain’s cohesion and security. The Arab nation hosts the U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet in the Persian Gulf.


    Bahrain’s embassy in Washington said in a statement Friday hat the kingdom “has continuously taken extensive social, political, economic and judicial reform measures and is committed to continue its reform plans,” which it said are often downplayed. It said Bahrain “is highly concerned with the manner the Foreign Military Sales case has been politicized,” and “the government will not tolerate those exploiting sectarian rifts, either domestically or regionally.”

    An aide to Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker of Tennessee said the conditions proposed for the Bahrain deal will be evaluated by the panel as part of its review of the planned sale.

    Review Timetable

    The arms sales notifications sent to lawmakers this week begin an informal review to take as long as 40 days. That would be followed by an official, public notification, after which the deals would go through unless Congress moves to stop them within 30 days.

    In addition to the 19 new F-16s valued at as much as $2.8 billion, the sale to Bahrain would include upgrades costing as much as $1 billion to Bahrain’s existing F-16 fleet, according to the informal notification.

    Unlike Bahrain, the planned sales for Qatar and Kuwait are being proposed without conditions.

    “Anytime there are strings attached, countries are less likely to complete a deal,” said Loren Thompson, a defense analyst with the Arlington, Virginia-based Lexington Institute who also consults for Lockheed, said in an e-mail.

    Older Planes

    “If Bahrain goes elsewhere for its fighters, that would destroy U.S. jobs and undermine U.S. influence in the region,” said Thompson, who indicated he was aware in general terms of the administration’s conditions.

    Concerns on issues such as human rights are normally taken into account in deciding whether to sell arms to a country, not included as a condition in notifying Congress, said Joel Johnson, an analyst who follows foreign military sales for the Teal Group in Fairfax, Virginia.

    The arms sales to the Gulf allies will help the U.S. contractors keep assembly lines running for their older fighters as U.S. purchases shift to Lockheed’s new F-35.

    “This order is very important to Lockheed Martin,” Michael Rein, a spokesman for the Bethesda, Maryland-based contractor, said in an e-mail. “We have been aggressively pursuing additional F-16 orders and without this sale to Bahrain we run the very real risk of the F-16 line shutting down. Bahrain is a valued customer and key partner.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...th-u-s-strings

    Cualquier queja con Capaccio, Tom Finn y Andrea Shalal

    Conocerá este individuo la diferencia entre uno y otro avión, sabe lo que trae un paquete y otro por ultimo sabe que la modernización M-2000-5 es superior en electrónica y armas al Mig-29XX y este paquete tiene ya mas de 20 años de lanzado?????
    No sé en que mente retorcida se pueda ocurrir que un caza que no ofrece AESA (xque no lo ofrece ni en proyecto) va a ser superior a otro que si lo propone, además de IRST y ofrece misiles BVR a precios accesibles


    Por ultimo los Rusos nos estafaron con los aviones que nos vendieron pues estos no llegaron a cumplir los 20 años de servicio y tuvieron que darse de baja por malos.
    Hasta para M E N T I R hay que ser coherente:
    1- los aviones los vendieron los bielorrusos
    2-Te reto a que muestres la Resolucion de Baja de los bienes, es decir de los aviones MiG-29
    3- como hablas por hablar, espero ver en esa Resolución la causal...

    Si no, quedaras como un men-ti-ro-so

    Saludos
    EL OTABO CAPITÁN, Apo Camae Ynga:
    ...Y ancí este baleroso capitán fue a Chile lleuando cincoenta mil yndios soldados a la conquista. Y fue hijo de Pachacuti Ynga Yupanqui. Y dizen que mató cien mil chilenos.
    Cuci Uanan Chire Ynga y Mango Capac Ynga y Topa Amaro Ynga, Ynga Maytac: Con estos dichos capitanes conquistaron todo Chile y la prouincia de Chaclla, Yaucha, Chinchay Cocha, Tarma.
    EL PRIMER NVEVA CORÓNICA I BVEN GOBIERNO -PHELIPE GVAMAN POMA DE AIALA (1615)

  4. #5796
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    Bueno para empezar los Su-22 ni a palos pasaron los 20 años y se cayeron solos por malos se fueron de baja, los Mig-29 "Bielorrusos" están por allí botados y menos de la mitad con un up-grade misio (nada mas pueden dar los rusos) bien gracias, dicen las malas lenguas que se presentaron micro-rajaduras en estos últimos.... Para variar Rusia no dis´pone de un radar aesa operativo hasta la fecha y menos uno destinado para los aviones Mig, lo cierto es que el dia de la presentación del "nuevo Mig-35" nop estuvo Putin (por algo sera) y el avión presentado es inferior tecnológicamente al Mirage 2000-5 te guste o no, ahora si quieres comparar chequea lo que te ofrece un RDY versus el radar que presentaron los rusos en la mentada ceremonia.
    Por ultimo un IRST solo te sirve si tienes un AWACS que te pueda vectorear al Mig con su radar en off y así lanzarle un par de pepinazos al enemigo ademas esto presupone que el Mig cuenta con un datalink compatible a la OTAN o salvo que tu pagues un desarrollo propio lo cual es casi imposible.
    Asi que bajate de tu nube y deja de soñar con capacidades que no existen.
    Saludos

  5. #5797
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerope View Post
    Bueno para empezar los Su-22 ni a palos pasaron los 20 años y se cayeron solos por malos se fueron de baja, los Mig-29 "Bielorrusos" están por allí botados y menos de la mitad con un up-grade misio (nada mas pueden dar los rusos)
    No hace falta insistir entonces:
    1- Finalmente aceptas que los aviones los vendieron los bielorrusos
    2-NO muestras la Resolucion de Baja de los MiG-29
    3- Como NO muestras ninguna Resolución, tu "causal", sólo es otra M E N T I R A tuya

    Si no lo hacías, quedabas como un men-ti-ro-so...No hay más que decir entonces.

    bien gracias, dicen las malas lenguas que se presentaron micro-rajaduras en estos últimos....
    Más que chismes de viejas, no has dado ni un sólo dato certero. Y encima tenías la ostraza de cuestionar los precios, sin darte el trabajo de revisar los links...

    Por ultimo un IRST solo te sirve si tienes un AWACS que te pueda vectorear al Mig con su radar en off y así lanzarle un par de pepinazos al enemigo ademas esto presupone que el Mig cuenta con un datalink compatible a la OTAN o salvo que tu pagues un desarrollo propio lo cual es casi imposible.
    Asi que bajate de tu nube y deja de soñar con capacidades que no existen.
    Plop!, osea sólo la OTAN conoce lo que es un "datalink"....
    Osea sólo un AWACS tiene un radar que te puede decir donde esta el "enemigo"

    En la boca del mentiroso....
    EL OTABO CAPITÁN, Apo Camae Ynga:
    ...Y ancí este baleroso capitán fue a Chile lleuando cincoenta mil yndios soldados a la conquista. Y fue hijo de Pachacuti Ynga Yupanqui. Y dizen que mató cien mil chilenos.
    Cuci Uanan Chire Ynga y Mango Capac Ynga y Topa Amaro Ynga, Ynga Maytac: Con estos dichos capitanes conquistaron todo Chile y la prouincia de Chaclla, Yaucha, Chinchay Cocha, Tarma.
    EL PRIMER NVEVA CORÓNICA I BVEN GOBIERNO -PHELIPE GVAMAN POMA DE AIALA (1615)

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