Anuncio 2



No hay anuncio todavía.

Grecia, se quedara sin los U-214?

  • Filtrar
  • Tiempo
  • Mostrar
Limpiar Todo
nuevos mensajes

  • Grecia, se quedara sin los U-214?

    HDW cancelo el contrato de los 4 U-214 griegos (recientemente construidos) por incumplimiento de contrato donde este pais alega fallas en los SdA.

    Aqui mas detalles:

    Greece in Default on U-214 Submarine Order

    On Monday Sept 21/09, ThyssenKrupp Marine informed the Greek Minister of Defence that it was canceling “The Archimedes Project” contract for 4 U-214 diesel-electric submarines with Air-Independent Propulsion technology, because the government’s payments had remained underwater for too long. Accumulated payment arrears are over EUR 520 million ($767 million). ThyssenKrupp and its subsidiary Hellenic Shipyards will now seek international arbitration, in order to recover some of the payments due under its contract.

    This development is the just the latest chapter in a long saga. If the issue remains unresolved, or arbitration results in termination payments but no delivery, Greece could find itself without a submarine force…

    Greece’s Submarine Program: Types and Travails

    Greece currently fields 8 boats: 4 Glavkos class U-209/1100 boats commissioned between 1971-1979 (S110-S113), and 4 Poseidon class U-209/1200 boats (S114, S117, S118, S119) commissioned from 1979-1980.

    In 1989, the Neptune I program began to upgrade the 4 Glavkos class boats. They received flank array sonar and significant electronics upgrades, including the ability to fire UGM-84 Harpoon anti-ship missiles. In 2002, Hellenic shipyards received the Neptune II contract for the “mid life” modernization and repair of 3 Poseidon class boats, which included cutting the hull and installing an 6.5m long Air-Independent Propulsion section, as well as hydrogen storage tanks for the AIP. Flank array sonar, electronics upgrades, an electro-optic mast with satellite communication capability, and Harpoon missile firing capability reportedly round out the upgrade’s major features.

    No ship lasts forever, and that’s especially true of submarines. While Neptune II proceeded, therefore, the Greek government signed a contract in February 2000 for 3 of HDW’s new Type 214 submarines + 1 option. It was the first order for the new class.

    Papanikolis (S120), the first-of-class U-214, was laid down in Kiel, Germany in February 2001 and launched in April 2004. In January 2005, HDW’s ThyssenKrupp Marine (TKMS) parent company bought Hellenic Shipyards near Athens, Greece, and invested heavily in modernizing it. Submarine work had already been underway since 2002, and Hellenic Shipyards built the next 3 Greek U-214 submarines: S121 Pipinos, S122 Matrozos, and S123 Katsonis.

    Once the Papanikolis’ sea trials began in 2006, however, the Hellenic Navy found a host of issues with the new submarine. Poor performance from the AIP system that supplements its diesel engines for long underwater operations, problems with the ISUS combat system, poor surface seakeeping in high seas, and hydraulic system issues were among the major flaws reported. The Navy refused acceptance, leaving HDW to fix the boat.

    HDW set to work on Papanikolis, but the submarine has been docked in Kiel since 2006 waiting for Greek acceptance. HDW says acceptance is now justified, as the defects have been fixed, but the Greek government refuses to accept the boat. It has raised other issues, such as the ad-hoc nature of several required modifications to avoid disassembling the boat, the number of sea trials that have consumed some of the onboard equipment’s operational life – and one rather more traditional reservation, which is not expressed but plays a role. Sailors are famously superstitious, and Papanikolis’ tribulations have given it a reputation as an unlucky boat.

    Meanwhile, the other 3 submarines are reportedly complete now, or very close to it. Pipinos was launched in April 2007, Matrozos followed in 2008, and Katsonis was launched at the end of 2008. None of them have been accepted, either.

    Greece is facing a very large budget deficit, expected to grow to 6% of total GDP in 2009. By dragging the problem out, the government can delay payments and possibly create enough pressure to renegotiate the price. In January 2009, Greek Defence Minister Evangelos Meimarakis lent credence to this view when he said that he would try to renegotiate the submarine contract. In May 2009, there were rumors of a deal that would have Greece accept the other 3 submarines once Pipinos passes acceptance trials, while HDW would be left with Papanikolis and could resell it elsewhere.

    TKMS’ filing and notification indicate that these options have all failed. “The Greek state has long ceased to honour its contractual obligations,” said TKMS’ release announcing its cancellation of the contract for default. Commerzbank AG analyst Dirk Nettling is even more succinct: the Greek government “can’t pay, won’t pay, or has other priorities.” As a result, a TKMS spokeswoman told Jane’s that ”...continuation of the contract is no longer economically justifiable.”

    The cancellation is also likely to affect the Neptune II project to upgrade and refurbish Greece’s existing U-209 boats by adding Air Independent Propulsion systems. While S118 has been accepted and re-launched, Jane’s reports that this contract has also been canceled.

    This leaves the Hellenic Navy with something of a problem. Submarines have a limited safe lifespan, in part because of the regular squeezing and release of water pressure on their hulls. The youngest Type 209s are already pushing 30 years, which is a long time. Very few submarines can safely last beyond 40 years in service, a milestone that even refurbished Neptune II project boats would reach in 2020.

    Given a required lead time of several years from orders to fielding, and the issues that a sustained contract cancellation would raise with potential builders, Greece may find itself with a limited window of just a few years to work out a new submarine strategy and place an order. The alternative would be a submarine force that could face significant operational limitations – and perhaps even no submarine force at all.

    A problem its rival Turkey would not have, since Turkey is set to begin inducting 6 of its own U-214 submarines, beginning in 2015.


    "I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" -Einstein

  • #2
    Estimado CHUNCHO:

    Papanikolis (S120), the first-of-class U-214, was laid down in Kiel, Germany in February 2001 and launched in April 2004. In January 2005, HDW’s ThyssenKrupp Marine (TKMS) parent company bought Hellenic Shipyards near Athens, Greece, and invested heavily in modernizing it
    Para nuestra fuerza de submarinos ya mismo: futuro BAP Tarata (Ya hasta le puse nombre!!)

    Saludos Cordiales
    Aut viam inveniam aut faciam


    • #3
      Así lo cuenta Jane's:

      Greek submarine force could go under as TKMS cancels two contracts

      The Hellenic Navy could lose its submarine capability within the next decade following the collapse of two submarine procurement and upgrade contracts with German shipbuilder ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS).

      The company announced the cancellation of the contracts on 22 September; they include the construction of four Papanikolis-class (Type 214) submarines and the modernisation of three Type 209 boats for the navy.

      Outstanding payments on both contracts total EUR524 million (USD775.3 million), including EUR300 million owed to TKMS' Greek subsidiary, Hellenic Shipyards (HSY). Despite negotiations over the past two years, TKMS stated that no solution has been found to secure payments for the submarines and consequently Greece is in default of its contractual obligations.

      A TKMS spokeswoman told Jane's : "A continuation of the contract is no longer economically justifiable." She added: "HDW [Howaldtswerke Deutsche-Werft] and HSY intend to file for arbitration in case there [is] no solution."

      TKMS subsidiary HDW built the first Type 214 submarine, Papanikolis, at its shipyard in Kiel, Germany, and offered the boat for acceptance in 2006. It was refused by the Greek Ministry of Defence (MoD), which claimed the boat did not perform to requirements. However, Papanikolis was subsequently certified as seaworthy by the German MoD during sea trials off the coast of Norway in 2008.

      The next three Type 214s were built in Greece by HSY, at Skaramangas near Athens. Pipinos was launched in April 2007, Matrozos followed in 2008 and Katsonis at the end of that year.

      FUENTE: Jane's 23/Set/2009 (ver nota aquí)
      Si como dicen, en 2008 en las pruebas del Ministerio de Defensa alemán se pudo constatar la subsanación de los problemas, lo que va a pasar sería que fuesen a un arbitraje, nuevas pruebas, y como salgan bien le van a clavar a los griegos todos los costos y con ganas.

      Pero si me da curiosidad el transfondo técnico que hizo que un 209, empezado a construir en 2004, tenga un pobre desempeño AIP en las primeras pruebas. (Claro que las pruebas son para detectar fallas, pero hablo de la explicación técnica de la misma).

      Originalmente publicado por TERABYTE Ver Mensaje
      Para nuestra fuerza de submarinos ya mismo: futuro BAP Tarata (Ya hasta le puse nombre!!)
      Estimado Terabyte, no cuadra el nombre; la MGP suele usar los nombres de combates navales, en los que ha participado, para los subs, de allí:

      BAP Angamos - Combate de Angamos (8 de octubre de 1879) - ex BAP Casma
      BAP Antofagasta - Combate de Antofagasta (28 de agosto de 1879)

      BAP Pisagua - Combate de Pisagua (21 de marzo de 1879, artillería costera peruana en este caso)
      BAP Chipana - Combate de Chipana (contra Chile el 12 de abril de 1879) - ex BAP Blume
      BAP Islay - Combate de Islay (12 de enero de 1838 )
      BAP Arica - Batalla de Arica (7 de Junio de 1880, las acciones preliminares fueron navales)

      Combate de Casma (12 de Enero de 1839)
      Federico Blume y Othon (1831-1901) - ingeniero peruano considerado el pionero de la navegación submarina en el Perú y en Sudamérica




      • #4
        Citando a Midheridoc:
        Estimado Terabyte, no cuadra el nombre; la MGP suele usar los nombres de combates navales, en los que ha participado, para los subs
        Correcto, no lo sabia, se agradece la informacion.

        SAludos Cordiales
        Aut viam inveniam aut faciam


        • #5
          segun defence talk

          HDW and HSY Cancel Shipbuilding Contracts

          HAMBURG, Germany / SKARAMANGAS, Greece: Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft GmbH (HDW), Kiel, Germany, and Hellenic Shipyards S.A. (HSY), Skaramangas, Athens, today canceled the construction programs signed with the Greek defense ministry in 2000 and 2002.

          The first contract involves the construction of four Class U214 submarines with air-independent fuel cell propulsion for the Hellenic Navy (“Archimedes” program). Construction of all four submarines is now complete.

          The second contract (“Neptun II”) involves the modernization of three Class 209 submarines, likewise through conversion to fuel cell technology.

          Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft and Hellenic Shipyards offered the first Class 214 submarine, the PAPANIKOLIS, to the Greek client for acceptance back in 2006. The client did not accept the vessel, even though it met and in some cases clearly exceeded all specified performance requirements.

          The outstanding payments now amount to 524 million euros. Of this amount, around 300 million euros is due to HSY. As a result, our client, the Greek defense ministry, is in default of its contractual obligations.

          Over a period of more than two years HDW and HSY have held numerous discussions with the Greek government, but these have not led to a solution. For HDW and HSY, continuing the contract is no longer economically justifiable.

          Following cancellation by HDW, HSY has exercised its right of cancellation due to default of payment. With the cancellation by HDW, HSY lost the main technology supplier essential for fulfilling the construction programs.

          HDW and HSY intend to file for arbitration.

          Since the acquisition of Hellenic Shipyards in January 2005, ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems has modernized and expanded HSY. Today, Greece’s largest shipyard boasts the most advanced production facilities for conventional submarines in the Mediterranean region.

          BACKGROUND NOTES (from Hellenic Shipyards)
          In February 2000 HSY undertook as Prime Contractor the procurement of four (4) class 214 submarines. This is the most advanced conventional submarine in the world and the Greek State was the first in the world to order it. The contract award provided for the building of the first submarine at HDW’s Kiel yard and for the building of the other three (3) submarines in Greece at HSY premises.

          Submarine construction at HSY started in 2002-following the investments for the creation of the necessary infrastructure- while the first Kiel-built submarine, named PAPANIKOLIS was launched in Kiel, Germany on April 2004.

          Further to the class 214 Program, in 2002, HSY was also awarded by HMOD the contract for the Mid Life Modernization and repair of three (3) type 209 HN Submarines (Neptune II Program).