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Eurofighter Typhoon para la FAP

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  • Eurofighter Typhoon para la FAP

    Peru offered 18 surplus Spanish Eurofighters

    12-18 February 2013 | Flight International

    Spain’s government has tendered
    a proposal to its Peruvian
    counterpart covering the
    possible sale of 18 Tranche 1 Eurofighter
    combat aircraft currently
    in service with its air force.
    Reportedly valued at €45 million
    ($61 million) per aircraft, the
    proposal was submitted at the request
    of the Peruvian defence
    ministry, with sources suggesting
    the airframes have accumulated
    an average of about 600 flight
    hours each. If negotiations go forward,
    the intention would be to
    transfer all of the fighters within
    one year of a contract signature.
    Faced with a looming shortfall
    in air defence capabilities, the Peruvian
    air force has placed requests
    for information for the Eurofighter
    Typhoon, the Boeing
    F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault
    Rafale, RAC MiG-35, Saab
    Gripen NG and Sukhoi Su-30/35.
    Spanish prime minister Mariano
    Rajoy visited Peru in January,
    when the nation’s proposal was
    formally submitted, although it is
    understood it has been under discussion
    since November 2012.
    Peru’s 12 Dassault Mirage
    2000P/DP fighters are the subject
    of a lengthy in-country overhaul,
    valued at $140 million. Nine have
    been returned to airworthy condition,
    but another $480 million
    would be needed to modernise
    the fleet to the enhanced Mirage
    2000-5 standard.
    A MiG-29 upgrade launched in
    late 2008 has experienced repeated
    delays, with eight aircraft so
    far modified for $106 million.
    Completing work on the other 11
    will cost another $400 million.
    Both types would be unlikely
    to remain in use beyond 2025, according
    to local media reports,
    which also suggest only four of
    the nation’s 18 Su-25 groundattack
    aircraft are operational.

    google translation

    Perú ofreció 18 Eurofighters excedentes españolas

    12 a 18 feb 2013 | Vuelo Internacional

    El gobierno de España ha licitado
    una propuesta para su peruano
    homólogo cubre la
    posible venta de 18 Eurofighter Tranche 1
    aviones de combate actualmente
    en servicio con la fuerza aérea.
    Según se informa un valor de € 45 millones
    ($ 61 millones) por aeronave, el
    propuesta fue presentada a petición
    de la defensa peruana
    ministerio, con fuentes que sugiere
    los fuselajes han acumulado
    un promedio de alrededor de 600 vuelo
    horas cada uno. Si las negociaciones seguir adelante,
    la intención sería
    transferir la totalidad de los combatientes dentro
    un año de la firma del contrato.
    Frente a un déficit que se avecina
    aire en las capacidades de defensa, la peruana
    la Fuerza Aérea ha puesto las solicitudes
    de información para el Eurofighter
    Typhoon, el Boeing
    F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault
    Rafale, RAC MiG-35, Saab
    Gripen NG y Sukhoi Su-30/35.
    Presidente del gobierno español Mariano
    Rajoy visitó el Perú en enero,
    cuando la propuesta de la nación era
    presentada formalmente, aunque es
    entendido que ha sido objeto de debate
    desde noviembre de 2012.
    12 de Perú Dassault Mirage
    Combatientes 2000P/DP son el tema
    de una extensa revisión en el país,
    un valor de $ 140 millones. Nueve países
    sido devuelto a condiciones de aeronavegabilidad,
    pero otro $ 480 millones
    sería necesario para modernizar
    la flota de Mirage mejorado
    2000-5 estándar.
    Una actualización del MiG-29 puso en marcha en
    A finales de 2008 ha experimentado repetidos
    retrasos, con ocho aviones para
    muy modificado por $ 106 millones.
    Completar el trabajo de los otros 11
    costará otros $ 400 millones.
    Ambos tipos sería poco probable
    a permanecer en uso más allá de 2025, según
    informes de los medios locales,
    también sugieren que sólo cuatro de los
    de la nación 18 Su-25 groundattack
    aeronaves están operativas. 􀁏

  • #2
    Otro articulito, de F-22 & Typhoon donde el europeo no sale tan mal parado como dia si y dia tambien, los lobbys se encargan de publicar...
    Fuente;
    http://theaviationist.com/2013/02/21...vs-typhoon-us/

    “Raptor’s thrust vectoring not essential”
    Eurofighter pilot says in last chapter of the F-22 vs Typhoon saga
    February 21, 2013
    Posted by David Cenciotti in : Military Aviation , trackback 5

    A couple of weeks ago, an experienced Eurofighter Typhoon industry test pilot, wrote to The Aviationist to reply to a Lockheed F-35 test pilot who, talking to Flight’s Dave Majumdar had claimed that all three variants of the Joint Strike Fighter will have better kinematic performance than any fourth-generation fighter plane with combat payload, including the Eurofighter Typhoon.

    Now the same Typhoon pilot has once again chosen this blog (and I’m honored for this) to explain why thrust vectoring, considered one of the most important F-22 features, is not essential when you are involved in an air-to-air engagement WVR (Within Visual Range).

    RAF Typhoons and U.S. Air Force F-22s are currently operating together in the U.S.: the joint mission started with a training exercise called Western Zephyr and will continue next week at the Red Flag 13-3 at Nellis Air Force Base.



    As reported in an interesting Defensenews article, the agility of the American 5th generation fighter plane is among the things that impressed British pilots the most.

    According to the piece, the commander of the RAF XI Sqn Wing Commander Rich Wells, said:

    “Raptor has vector thrust: Typhoon doesn’t,” he said. “What the aircraft can do, it’s incredible. The Typhoon just doesn’t do that.”

    Even if it is a matter of fact that the European top class fighter jet lacks thrust vectoring (TV) our source believes that this is not a big deal.

    To be honest, the points he raises were already discussed in the article about the outcome of the dogfights between the U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptors and the German Air Force Eurofighter Typhoons during last year’s Red Flag – Alaska, when Americans said the F-22 performance was “overwhelming” while German said the costly stealth fighter was “salad” for the Eurofighter’s pilots lunch.

    At that time we said that the F-22 tends to lose too much energy when using TV and unless the Raptor can manage to immediately get in the proper position to score a kill, the energy it loses makes it quite vulnerable.

    Anyway, here’s what he wrote to us:


    couple of weeks ago, an experienced Eurofighter Typhoon industry test pilot, wrote to The Aviationist to reply to a Lockheed F-35 test pilot who, talking to Flight¡¯s Dave Majumdar had claimed that all three variants of the Joint Strike Fighter will have better kinematic performance than any fourth-generation fighter plane with combat payload, including the Eurofighter Typhoon.

    Now the same Typhoon pilot has once again chosen this blog (and I¡¯m honored for this) to explain why thrust vectoring, considered one of the most important F-22 features, is not essential when you are involved in an air-to-air engagement WVR (Within Visual Range).

    RAF Typhoons and U.S. Air Force F-22s are currently operating together in the U.S.: the joint mission started with a training exercise called Western Zephyr and will continue next week at the Red Flag 13-3 at Nellis Air Force Base.



    As reported in an interesting Defensenews article, the agility of the American 5th generation fighter plane is among the things that impressed British pilots the most.

    According to the piece, the commander of the RAF XI Sqn Wing Commander Rich Wells, said:

    ¡°Raptor has vector thrust: Typhoon doesn¡¯t,¡± he said. ¡°What the aircraft can do, it¡¯s incredible. The Typhoon just doesn¡¯t do that.¡±

    Even if it is a matter of fact that the European top class fighter jet lacks thrust vectoring (TV) our source believes that this is not a big deal.

    To be honest, the points he raises were already discussed in the article about the outcome of the dogfights between the U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptors and the German Air Force Eurofighter Typhoons during last year¡¯s Red Flag ¨C Alaska, when Americans said the F-22 performance was ¡°overwhelming¡± while German said the costly stealth fighter was ¡°salad¡± for the Eurofighter¡¯s pilots lunch.

    At that time we said that the F-22 tends to lose too much energy when using TV and unless the Raptor can manage to immediately get in the proper position to score a kill, the energy it loses makes it quite vulnerable.

    Anyway, here¡¯s what he wrote to us:

    We have all been around long enough to recognize there is not a single sensor able to turn the night into day, nor a unique aerodynamic design feature capable of ensuring by itself air dominance if implemented.

    The effectiveness of an air superiority fighter relies on the successful combination of a range of design elements including thrust-to-weight ratio, wing loading, avionics and weapons integration. Furthermore, : appropriate tactics and valuable aircrew training must be developed to exploit the full potential of the weapon system.

    Typically, when time comes to decide how to achieve the required ¡°nose pointing capability¡± for high thrust-to-weight ratio airplanes three solutions are on the table:

    - extremely high short term sustained Angle of Attack values (characteristic of twin tailed airplanes);
    - High Off-Bore-Sight Weapons, preferably supported by Helmet Cueing;
    - Thrust Vectoring.

    Thrust Vectoring is one of the design elements that can contribute to create a certain advantage during close air combat by generating impressive pitch and yaw rates, but only in a limited portion of the flight envelope at velocities well below ¡°corner speed¡±.

    However, Thrust Vectoring can also transform in a few seconds an energy fighter in a piece of metal literally falling off the sky, making it an easy prey for those who have been able to conserve their energy.

    Moreover, Thrust Vector operation requires the pilot to ¡°create the opportunity¡± for its usage, spending valuable time in manoeuvring the aircraft to achieve a suitable condition and managing the activation of the Thrust Vector Control.

    If you are ¡°defensive¡± and your aircraft has Thrust Vectoring, you can possibly outturn your enemy, but that most likely won¡¯t prove to be a great idea: an energy fighter like the Typhoon will conveniently ¡°use the vertical¡± to retain energy and aggressively reposition for a missile or gun shot. Also the subsequent acceleration will be extremely time (and fuel) consuming, giving your opponent the opportunity to tail chase you for ever, exploiting all its short range weapon array.

    If you are ¡°neutral¡±, when typically vertical, rolling and flat scissors would accompany the progressive energy decay, similarly performing machines would remain closely entangled, negating the opportunity for Thrust Vector activation.

    If you are ¡°offensive¡±, probably stuck in a never ending ¡°rate fight¡±, Thrust Vector could provide the opportunity for a couple of shots in close sequence. Make sure nobody is coming to you from the ¡°support structure¡±, otherwise that could be also your last move.

    Talking of twin tailed aircraft, Angles of Attack in excess of 30-35 degrees are capable of creating drag conditions unsustainable no matter the engine/airframe matching, and developing energy decays intrusive of the tactical flying but also of the flight control system protections. Roll rates would also deteriorate at the higher values of AoA and target tracking ability would quickly decay.

    Eurofighter has decided to develop for the Typhoon High Off-Bore-Sight Weapons, supported by Helmet Cueing, to retain energy and target tracking ability while manoeuvring WVR (Within Visual Range) at relatively high but sustainable Angles of Attack. For those who may require some additional AoA, the ¡°Strakes¡± package is progressing well and soon it will be offered to Typhoon¡¯s Customers. Nevertheless, Strakes is not purely about extreme AoA, but also suitable Roll Rates and manageble energy characteristics. Because in the European way of doing things, an all round balanced solution counts more than a single eye opening performance.

    It is a fact that against Eastern produced fighters provided with Thrust Vectoring, throughout the years the Typhoon has showed an embarasing (for them) kill-to-loss ratio.

    It is a fact that after some initial encounters between the Raptor and the Typhoon, the situation appears of absolute equity. Too early to say if it is the Helmet Cueing or the Thrust Vector, or how much tactics and training are a player in all this. For sure, we are facing two impressively capable machines.

    The typical answer to any critics to the F-22 air dominance is: ¡°since it is stealthy, you should not even consider the possibility of a close encounter with another jet.¡±



    Image credit: U.S. Air Force

    Even if this can be true, the risk of coming to close range is still high. At a distance of about 50 km the Typhoon IRST (Infra-Red Search and Track) system could be capable to find even a stealthy plane ¡°especially if it is large and hot, like the F-22¡å as a Eurofighter pilot once said.

    Furthermore, Raptors are not always stealthy as one might believe: for instance, when they carry external store, rejoin with tankers or talk on the radio (secure or unsecure ones) they become more vulnerable to detection.

    But this is another story, that we will discuss in the near future¡*

    Comentario


    • #3
      Interesante pero que tiene que ver con la posible adquisicion del typhoon?
      Por eso es que no leo mas este foro. No encuentro nada de noticias a cerca de la FAP. Me voy.

      Comentario


      • #4
        La pregunta es... los EFA españoles estan T1... cuanto costaria la gracia pasa subirlos a T3? (a futuro)...

        Comentario


        • #5
          aparentemente no es possible o su costo increiblemente alto por eso es que estan vendiendolos. La capacidad del Typhoon tranche 1 es limitada a AA y limitada AG. Me imagino que generalmente serian usados en la mision de superioridad aerea por la FAP.

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